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Did I get Scammed?

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This topic contains 19 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  Shelly Anderson 2 years, 7 months ago.

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  • #16956 Reply

    largebla
    Keymaster

    I just bought a breeding pair a couple weeks ago and paid a PREMIUM because I was told the female was pregnant and due 2nd week of May. Well this means she is a week away and if you ask me (I’m very new to this) she doesn’t even look pregnant and last week the boar seemed interested in her, but she kept walking off. Should there be no question weather she is or is not pregnant being that close to the supposed due date. she just turned 3 he is almost 4… and post b4 this doesn’t give me a warm fuzzy. Hopfully, it was an honest mistake if it turns out I’m getting the raw end of this deal, concidering the sellers were very nice people. I just wanted yalls opinion b4 jumping to any conclusions… thx

    #18580 Reply

    largebla
    Keymaster

    Well 1st week of June and I still don’t even think she is pregnant. I contacted the seller to ask what they thought might be wrong and they said “she should be pregnant” and were confused why I was conserned. I paid $1000.00, in my budget I figured if I got @least 4 piglets I would be ok, if more great, if less I would start to lose… But I didn’t consider for her to not even be pregnant. Not good when you have $250 payments for the next 4 mounths. Oh ya the seller said all they could or would do is help me sell them, hadn’t heard back. Being such a small community I didn’t expect this.

    #18585 Reply

    largebla
    Keymaster

    I read a bit about your situation and wanted to give you my perspective on the situation and maybe help you see the potential good outcome as well.

    Did you get scammed? No. From the position of the board, the member did nothing wrong. From the perspective of another breeder and business owner, I would still say no. I read the original post made by the sellers. They did say the sow was bred and who she was exposed to. The might or might not have actually witnessed the sow being bred or maybe they just had her exposed to the boar for a certain time. Either way they represented that she was bred. As a breeder, there have been many times we thought a sow was due earlier than she was actually due, or that she was even pregnant. The only two 100% positive ways to know is 1) wait for the birth, or 2) test for pregnancy. I’m glad actually that this came up because I did some searching on line and found this pretone ii pregnancy test. The cost is just over $200, but if you were to use it over a lifetime of breeding it seems a good investment.

    http://www.qcsupply.com/farm-livestock/health-care/pregnancy-backfat-detectors/140053-renco-preg-tone-ii-plus-without-earphone.html

    So the point is, the breeders selling the sow probably thought she was pregnant. Doesn’t mean they scammed you, intentionally or not. You still, in my opinion, got a good deal on your purchase. $1000 for a proven sow is well worth the price and had I sold a sow from my farm it would go for no less, bred or not. A boar also proven for $500 is also a bargain. I know the bloodline personally of this boar. I looked at your registration paper on him and if you notice his sire came from my farm and was the first boar we sold. The sire was a fantastic boar and produced many beautiful babies.

    I understand you are frustrated and disappointed. You bought what you thought was a ready made herd. I think a lot of new breeders fall into this same trap. They want to get to the end result quickly. Truth is, this is a long process. No guarantees. One day to the next things change and the market changes and now you are having to find ways to evolve into what the market wants.

    So what do you do with your breeding pair that you thought was already bred? How does the boar act around your female? Is the boar exposed to her all the time? Does he try to mount her? If he does, does she stand still and let him or does she turn and walk away? Here is an excerpt from an article on the Pork Board website that discusses estrus. If she is exposed to the boar and comes into heat, she is not pregnant, let him do his thing. If she does not come into heat, she is bred and just isn’t as far along as you thought.

    Estrus: Reddening and swelling of the vulva, increased activity and vocalizations, and a change in the consistency of the vaginal mucus are all signs of an approaching estrus and can be observed one to two days prior to its occurrence. Females are classified as being in estrus or heat when they exhibit immobilization, or the standing reflex, in response to pressure placed on their backs (PIH-64). In many animals the ears also become erect when pressure is applied to the back (Figure 1). The physiological and behavioral signs and, thus, the accuracy of estrus detection, are enhanced considerably by short periods of daily exposure to a mature boar. Daily boar exposure beginning 17 days after breeding is the most common regimen used for determining pregnancy with this method.

    If she is not bred and he is no longer viable he will still mount her. If she does not become pregnant, I would recommend you replace him and see if that does the trick. I would recommend a young boar that can get used to you at a young age and grow with your operation. Boars can breed much younger than gilts/sows. Once they are big enough to mount, they can usually do the job. If you replace him and she still does not breed, you need to get yourself a new sow or a young gilt.

    Best of luck to you. If you have questions, continue to ask. That is what this forum is for.

    Regards,
    Kelley Escobedo
    South Texas Heritage Pork

    #18587 Reply

    largebla
    Keymaster

    Thank you very much for your concern and insight. Only reason I say scammed is it was adamantly expressed and represented to me that she was not only for sure pregnant but also due 2nd week of May, the seller knew full well if they had hinted that their was a chance the sow might not be pregnant that I would not have bought her, I would have just bought one of her gilts for $350 like I was going to do originally. I mean I asked a # of times are you sure she is pragnant because she did not look anywhere near as big as their other sow they said was due any day (which would have been 3rd week of April). And each time I asked they said, oh ya she is definitely pregnant. That’s why I believe I was misled intentionally. Sounds like if I was lucky enough to have tried to buy from you I would have only bought a gilt, doesn’t sound like you would have persisted at all as to the sow being for sure pregnant, I’m not in the position to have taken the risk I took. But from your perspective I’m in good shape because they are well worth $1500.00 for a proven breeding pair, I would Agree if I could sell them for that or even close. I’m glad to hear that he is such a fantastic bloodline, that helps the wound a little. I got into this because I am hungry not to try and make a living selling LB’s.

    Well like I said in the first post he tries she walks off she still doesn’t look any bigger. He is exposed to her all the time. How many more years should I get out of them, or better question is how old is a breeding pair usually good for? And Thank you Again.

    #18588 Reply

    largebla
    Keymaster

    Several of my sows are older than yours and still producing great litters. Our boar is a bit younger but we keep them young because smaller, less weight is better on the sows. I think both are capable of several years of good litters so long as nothing is wrong with them. If she walks away from the boar I would say she is probably pregnant, but maybe not near as far along as you were lead to believe. Like I said, even after doing this for several years and over 200 litters, we still call it off by weeks sometimes. They look close, then they don’t. They will get pretty big late in pregnancy, so I understand why you asked if they were sure. That close she should have been pretty evidently pregnant. If she has had several litters they should have known her signs. Again, I understand your frustration. It is a good deal of money and I hope it works out for you. Keep watching her for signs of pregnancy.

    #18589 Reply

    largebla
    Keymaster

    Several of my sows are older than yours and still producing great litters. Our boar is a bit younger but we keep them young because smaller, less weight is better on the sows. I think both are capable of several years of good litters so long as nothing is wrong with them. If she walks away from the boar I would say she is probably pregnant, but maybe not near as far along as you were lead to believe. Like I said, even after doing this for several years and over 200 litters, we still call it off by weeks sometimes. They look close, then they don’t. They will get pretty big late in pregnancy, so I understand why you asked if they were sure. That close she should have been pretty evidently pregnant. If she has had several litters they should have known her signs. Again, I understand your frustration. It is a good deal of money and I hope it works out for you. Keep watching her for signs of pregnancy.

    #18590 Reply

    largebla
    Keymaster

    WOW! Over 200 litters… 😯 I’m glad to hear you think I still have several years or so, @least a few more litters. Well I will definitely keep watching her and keep ya posted thx

    #18591 Reply
    Member: OK Jennifer Ledlow
    Jennifer Ledlow
    Participant

    This happened to me as well :). Except the seller didn’t say 100% that the gilt was bred. He said she should be and priced them as such. Two days after I got them home they were breeding, and now we have three weeks to go and she is huge.

    #20375 Reply
    Member: Mississippi Hogfeathers
    Hogfeathers
    Participant

    Update…still nothing…

    #20378 Reply
    Registrar
    Registrar
    Moderator

    As a breeder, if I am selling a hog as bred I will have an ultrasound done and vet verification. This allows the buyer to be comfortable with a premium price and my piece of mind.

    A gilt/sow may be sold as “exposed” which does not mean pregnant, but the possibility of pregnancy. I prefer a quick trip to the vet, eases many minds.
    -Felicia

    #20379 Reply
    Member: Mississippi Hogfeathers
    Hogfeathers
    Participant

    That’s actually why I am posting so no one falls into the same trap I fell into and it was definitely a trap, considering the seller had given different due dates to different buyers, So knowing what I know now I feel its my duty to help others. At this point vet varification makes all the sense in the world (hind sight). And from the look at her piglets I’m not sure she used a vet very often. What about registrations, do they normally take months sometimes years?

    #20406 Reply
    Member: Mississippi Hogfeathers
    Hogfeathers
    Participant

    How do you go about looking at registrations of other peoples hogs? Like Kelley Escobedo was able to look at mine.
    I was wanting to do some more research…
    And a Question for Kelley.
    Now that you have more info on my situation do you really still feel… Did I get scammed? “No. From the position of the board, the member did nothing wrong. From the perspective of another breeder and business owner, I would still say no…?

    #20407 Reply
    Member: PA Duane Luzier
    Duane Luzier
    Participant

    You must be a member and logged in :
    At the top of the page you will choose the “INFORMATION’ tab, “MEMBER TOOLS”, “SEARCHES”. You can search for a hog by entering their exact registry name or as I do, by entering the current registered owner’s name or Breeder (I believe). So if you enter our farm as owner “Fur Immer Farm” it will bring up an entire list of all of the hogs that we have registered in our name as owner and you can click on the chosen hog to look at their pedigree. – Kelly Luzier

    #20408 Reply
    Member: Mississippi Hogfeathers
    Hogfeathers
    Participant

    Worked like a charm, thank you,, now I have a new question.
    Does 35/5 mean 35th litter 5th pig in that litter? I know the answr has to be. No
    So what does it mean?

    #20409 Reply
    Member: PA Duane Luzier
    Duane Luzier
    Participant

    Yes, litter/piglet. You have Herd name, bloodline, litter/ birth order and registration number on the books. 35 would be the 35th litter probably of LBH born on that farm (or farrowed by that breeder). We have been raising LBH for 5 years and we are on litter #18 but we only breed 2-3 sows, someone with 4-6 sows could reach 35 in 1/2 the time depending on how often they farrow. I don’t like to farrow in the cold winter months, nor do I like to farrow in July/August due to the hot temps in our area so we skip a few heat cycles by choice….

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