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Sisters gilts killing litters

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This topic contains 14 replies, has 3 voices, and was last updated by  largebla 6 years, 3 months ago.

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  • #16438 Reply

    largebla
    Keymaster

    Both sister breed 30 days apart first gilt killed 7out of her 8 babies hurt 8th before I could get her away next gilt was really easy going when giving brith but after a few hours tried to bite and push baby’s away would not let them eat took to vet he cut there teeth out and tried next day to add one then in waited a day added next all was fine till I tried the fourth she got really up set and would not take any other but the first 3 I feed for days and lost all other even got milk made for pigs and ran them back and forth to the vet what went wrong

    #17442 Reply

    Pamela
    Participant

    Had these gilts been exposed to other sows/gilts when they were having their litters? Maybe these gilts had no clue what those little wriggly black things were? Stressed out? Just moved them or something?

    Pam

    #17444 Reply

    largebla
    Keymaster

    You should try to keep them separated during farrowing. Remember these are animals, they go by instinct. More mouths to feed means less for the herd, so a less dominant mother will not protect her babies to other mothers. Pecking order, if you will. If you keep them separated while they are farrowing they should not try to hurt their own babies (important though that they see and hear the herd for easy reentry into the herd). Also a good question about whether or not they were experienced. They learn by example. First time sows have a hard time sometimes figuring out what to do. Some have the natural instincts. We have gone out to check on a sow to find her happily nursing her new babies. We have also gone out to find the entire litter gone. Sad, but it happens. I’d give the moms another chance.

    #17448 Reply

    largebla
    Keymaster

    No or girls are put into 1/4ac. Pin with a barn with an foot rap around for piglets to get away about 30 days before giving birth new hay large water tanks

    Food is the best you can buy just at a lose she took back 3 of the babbys but that a

    #17449 Reply

    largebla
    Keymaster

    There put in pin alone

    #17453 Reply

    largebla
    Keymaster

    Sofie, how big are your sows? If they are too big it can cause many problems with breeding and with farrowing. Just a concern you might want to look into. Sows should be lean and able to easily move around before breeding and during farrowing. Too big can also cause hip and foot problems. When we started this business we thought we should fatten them up before they got bred, but learned the hard way that it is just the opposite.

    #17454 Reply

    largebla
    Keymaster

    I have found that placing piglets back with the sow works best if done during the first 24 hours. If you gave her one piglet a day for four day that could have freaked her out on its own. Plus, by that time she bonded with the three, the others were intruders. The other piglets dying could be due to the fact that they had no colostrum. Without immunities they have no chance and the teeth clipping probably exposed them to more bacteria entering their system.

    #17456 Reply

    largebla
    Keymaster

    I just had my first two litters today . Both were in the same pen …Big mistake . The first was at 1:30 am and the second was at 7 pm . The first gild had six really quick , within 2 hours . See stomped on one and tried to eat the others , they ended up having to hide behind the feeder . After I got her away I removed the remaining 5 and bottle fed them through out the day in my garage . Then there was only the one gild in the farrowing pen . When the second gild started to give birth after the first two I put the other five from the first gild back into the pen . As of now there are 13 little ones running around !! There is still two runts and eleven others doing well . What the morning will bring I have no clue . I will say I regret not looking at this forum first, it would have saved a lot of stress and worry for both the gilds and myself. One question I have is whether I should bring the first gild back in or just let the second gild take over the original five piglets . My gut is telling me to just let the second gild assume responsibility for all of them . I’m sure she knows their not hers but she’s letting them feed so she must be o.k. with it? After today’s events you can bet your butt I’ll be sure to check the forum out more often !! Thanks JL

    #17457 Reply
    Member: TX Shiner Pork
    Shiner Pork
    Participant

    Joshua,

    From our experience, and I know it sounds cruel, but as humanely as possible, get rid of the runts. They will die a slow and painful death, especially with 13 competing for a dozen teets. It is good that the second gilt is letting them feed, as they received some colostrum in the process. You can try and re-introduce the five to the first gilt, but watch them closely and any signs of her rejecting them, they should be taken away. Hope you know which five are THE five. Letting one gilt raise 11 piglets on the first go-around is going to be hard on her. If you do it that away, plan on boosting her feed. Do separate the two gilts though, that is important. Good luck.

    Ross

    #17458 Reply

    largebla
    Keymaster

    I somewhat disagree with Ross. Runt is a difficult term to understand from not seeing them. We have had small piglets regain and flourish within only a few weeks, but the key is they NEED to nurse. If you can get the first mom to take her babies back, that will be ideal. Watch her with them and see how she reacts. If she is allowing them to nurse, she should take them in and no more problems. If they smell too much like the second mom she might not take them and might in fact try to kill them. If they kill them they will eat them. This is natural. In the wild they would do that to remove the scent from their nest as well as regaining the protein for their babies (I know, gross, but nature can be gross).

    One thing we have found is that several days before a new gilt / sow is going to farrow, start gently rubbing your hand across her teats and see if she naturally lays down. It should be instinct. The more you do this, the more she gets used to the process and it is less of a PLOP when she has the babies around her. Also, when she is laying down, touch her back leg just behind the leg and see if she kicks it up to allow for a baby to make the turn from birth to teat. Also should be a natural reaction. The more you practice with them the more natural it becomes for when they have real babies and they are nervous and anxious.

    It is very important to keep them separated during farrowing, especially when you don’t know what kind of mom you are going to have. Some do just fine around other moms, some don’t. Finding out the hard way can be devastating!

    Good luck with your babies!

    #17460 Reply
    Member: TX Shiner Pork
    Shiner Pork
    Participant

    Kelley is right, make sure they are “runts”. We’ve had small pigs also, but runts are usually easy to spot, not only in size, but the overall look: oversized head, rough, coarse hair, etc… Oh, you can keep them if you want a small roasting piglet, as we wouldn’t want to put their genetics into the LBH lineage. But, just from our experience, they are so small, they end up not being able to nurse with all the competition. Hand feeding is a lot, I mean a lot, of trouble, and as gross as it is, in nature, they would not make it, so we just move that process along. It’s one of the hard parts of raising animals. You lose some, some by their hand, some by your own.

    #17461 Reply

    largebla
    Keymaster

    Thanks for the advise !! Right now there are 11 piglets left . There is still one runt left and the sow seams to be doing fine . For now I think I’m just going to let her do her thing . I won’t have time until this weekend as far as letting the other sow have her piglets back . I’m afraid by then they will smell to much like the current sow . The first five piglets were marked with a crayon so I know which ones were hers . I never got paperwork on the sows like I was promised so these litters will have to be meat pigs . Thanks again for the great advise . JL

    #17462 Reply

    largebla
    Keymaster

    I, too, would just leave the 11 with the one gilt. Since she’s caring for them there’s no real reason, in my opinion, to risk them with the first gilt. My first LB gilt raised 10 babies just fine so as long as she’s fed well, she should do alright. Good luck to you!

    #17463 Reply

    largebla
    Keymaster

    She should be fine with 11, we have had several litters that large or even a few more with no problems. Mom needs to stay healthy and active and you should rest her for a few months after she weans before you expose her again. The mom that does not have babies will come back in season almost immediately if she does not nurse. Natures way of taking care of what happens. If you have them on pasture, the babies can eat grass almost immediately. That helps nursing mom too.

    Good luck with your new babies!

    #17464 Reply

    largebla
    Keymaster

    Thank you’ll for all the info I think a big part is all my pigs are just to fat we lost all but the 3 she kept that every 2 hour feeding sucked Joshua you are very lucky that she feeding all the piglet I would leave well enough alone again thanks

    Sofia

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