Proably the dumbest question ever….
May 18, 2011 at 4:52 pm #17439
I’m finding this conversation interesting but a little confusing. When you talk about ‘outcrossing’, are you meaning within already established pedigreed bloodlines or, crossbreeding with another breed? I have noticed names for pigs that do not originate from their country of birth (for instance Longfellow) – have these been ‘made up’ by your members?May 20, 2011 at 9:53 am #17447
Outcrossing can be done between different breeds, but I am using the word to refer to (as you put it), ‘already pedigreed bloodlines’.
There are two ‘lines’ from the UK that at some point in the past were both from the ‘Attempt’ British line (so I have always been told, but have no evidence): Noble Sam and Longfellow. For some reason Ted Smith (as far as I can tell from records) split the line into two. Charlotte and Prudence lines have been ‘made up’ in the same way, but without access to the older records (presumably only available from Ted’s registry), there is no way to trace them back further than we have done already.
Does that help?
RichardMay 22, 2011 at 6:41 pm #17455
Yes thanks Richard. It would seem to me that crossbreeding would be a better term if genetics from other breeds were introduced. I guess they could be identified by the use of names not used in their motherland. That way you would know which lines were pure.
Is Mr. Smith the original importer of the British lines? Why can’t you change the names back to those they came out with? Is there a reason you don’t have those records? Would the exporters be able to help? Is it difficult to import more lines? I wonder if ‘biting the bullet’ to get some more lines would solve the problem? If it were me, I would be importing everything I could. Unfortunately we can’t import anything here and I am so envious that you can. I do grapple with the problem of ‘lines’ as they can be deceptive especially to those who are new to the art of reading a pedigree. If a ‘Tess’ who has a sire whose dam was a ‘Princess’ and who is then put to a male whose dam is also ‘Princess’, aren’t the offspring more’Princess’ than ‘Tess’? But they are registered as ‘Tess’ at least that is the case here. A more recent trend has been for new breeders to ‘invent’ lines from unregistered stock. As the national herd is quite small and they must come from somwehere, it makes it very difficult to know who is related to whom. I guess DNA parentage verification will be the next step.
I am enjoying the discussion.
ChristineMay 31, 2011 at 8:49 am #17466
Sorry about the reference to Ted. Ted is not the original importer to the US, although he has imported through the years. Ted was, however, very instrumental in keeping the breed alive in this country. Ted has his own registry and the paperwork is not available to us.
Changing the lines names back would be a nightmare and would probably get me eaten by a bunch of member’s pigs! Also finding the paperwork to prove my assumptions would be difficult. I have been in contact with someone who arranged for the import of a number of Large Blacks from the UK and Canada prior to Ted’s involvement. Still no paperwork yet.
We don’t have the problem of lines being invented anymore. All lines have to be proven to be from registered stock and registered in a way the LBHA trust.
We have several members talking about importing pigs, not just semen, but nothing’s happened yet to my knowledge. It gets expensive though and I’ve estimated and heard estimates from others that it would run about $10,000 for up to 20 piglets, + the price of the piglets.
How do your LBs cope with the climate down there (Australia for anyone that has not noticed)? I’ve found the able to handle most of what nature throws at them. Mine have lived in +100F (37C) to -40F (-40C) and are all still here. Not bad for pommy pigs.
(a pom)June 2, 2011 at 5:52 pm #17469
My pigs have proven very adaptable to the climate here. We have temperatures from -5c to 45c and, providing they have a warm bed and a wallow seem very happy.
Import costs are a real stumbling block to increasing bloodlines. We are unable to import anything due to our strict quarantine laws so at least you have that option – expensive as it is. Good luck.
(an Australian pom)